this has been posted in GD a couple of times in the past but the thread usually lives for a couple of hours and falls to the back pages. I'll leave this one tacked for a month or two...
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8 ways to spot a phony
By Laura Bailey
Times staff writer
Wannabe war heroes aren’t just the guys at bars telling tall tales about their glory days as a Navy SEAL or recon Marine. Impostor veterans infiltrate unit reunions, military events and even funerals.
Most are former military members beefing up their image with employers and friends. Some are active-duty service members trying to get an edge at promotion boards. Some have never even seen the inside of a military base.
So the odds are you’ll run into a faker at some point. But how can you tell for sure?
If you think someone is an impostor, usually your first instinct is accurate, said FBI Special Agent Thomas A. Cottone Jr., the bureau’s lead agent on medals fraud cases.
“If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is,” he said.
Medal of Honor impostors are the easiest to expose because there are few living members and they maintain a tight network, Cottone said.
There are only 130 living recipients, according to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, which maintains a complete online list of recipients that can be checked to verify a suspicious story.
An independent investigator of phony veterans, B.G. “Jug” Burkett, said the men who impersonate war heroes gain from it personally and professionally. Burkett, author of the book “Stolen Valor,” says the con often begins when a military member leaves or changes services.
Once they’re no longer with their peer group it becomes easier to lie, Burkett said. If they have doctored their records, their new peers don’t bother to check them, he said.
The crime usually starts small, he said, typically beginning with tall tales at a social event. It often escalates when the story teller gets stuck in the lie, so he continues making up details to support the original lie. Then he might continue from there once he sees the benefit of the lie. The community might take him and make him the local war hero, for example.
“It’s like knowing a sports hero,” Burkett said. “Suddenly he’s feeling better about himself. He’s getting treated better.”
But medal fraud hunters are out to ruin those good feelings.
They have special ways to decipher whether someone is the real deal, and while they wouldn’t share all their tricks of the trade, they did disclose a few that you can use to help ferret out a phony.
A few of their tricks:
1. Sketchy records. When asked to verify details of their military record, phonies often say they didn’t go through the normal military channels, said Mike Sandborn, an FBI special agent and former Marine captain who works medals fraud cases.
Sandborn said phonies will often say they were in high demand by the military and weren’t required to go through the normal training.
2. Appearance matters. Impostors put on pretty lousy impersonations. They’re often out of shape or have a “slovenly appearance in uniform,” Sandborn said. If they look like “50 pounds of pork shoved into a 10-pound sack,” Sandborn said, they’re probably an impostor.
3. Top secret? Probably not. A phony often will say details of his career exploits are classified. But even with awards for classified actions, ceremonies are never top secret. Veterans claiming to have received an award should be able to produce an order granting it no matter how secretive the action.
4. “My dog ate it.” Phonies often say their military documents were destroyed in a fire or some similar disaster.
5. Watch that rack. Check their decorations; phonies often wear medals in the wrong order or in disproportion to their time in service.
6. Check the birth date. When it comes to the Medal of Honor, age matters. According to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, the youngest living recipient is 53-year-old Gordon R. Roberts. “If you see a young kid wearing a Medal of Honor, he’s impersonating,” said Gary Littrell, president of the society.
7. Just ask. Don’t be afraid to test someone if you think they’re faking, FBI agents say. If they’re legit, they won’t mind if you ask questions, Cottone said.
Highly decorated veterans usually are very modest and rarely draw attention to their accomplishments; impostors love to boast. Sandborn cautioned troops to remember that “true heroism is like a river — the deeper it runs, the quieter it is.”
8. Surf the Web. Still not sure? Check out the online databases of information about both real and phony war heroes. The site www.homeofheroes.com has a confidential online “bust a phony” form. Information submitted is turned over to the FBI.
The Congressional Medal of Honor Society maintains a list of living MOH award recipients at www.cmohs.org. Also, www.pownetwork.org maintains a list of phony veterans.
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I'm the 82nd Airborne and this is as far as the bastards are going!
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Posted :: 4/22/2005 8:20:28 AM EDT
UrbanTactical
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Besides the fraud, can't you be imprisoned for wearing a MOH if you didn't really received the medal.
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Posted :: 4/28/2005 8:18:37 PM EDT
82ndAbn
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Originally Posted By UrbanTactical:
Besides the fraud, can't you be imprisoned for wearing a MOH if you didn't really received the medal.
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FBI Agent Cottone has arrested quite a few imposters over the years.
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I'm the 82nd Airborne and this is as far as the bastards are going!
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Posted :: 4/29/2005 7:53:05 AM EDT
161Infantry
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We had a guy show up in Iraq as a replacement wearing a 2nd Batt. Rangers combat patch, Ranger tab, CIB and Jump wings. After one patrol the members of his platoon started to doubt he was real, since he had no clue how to patrol. After some investigation he was found to have not earned any of the badges on his uniform. Was busted from SPC to PFC, not sure what else they did to him. After he was exposed no one wanted anything to do with him and he sat out OIF2 as a CQ bitch.
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Posted :: 5/11/2005 10:40:29 PM EDT
tweeter
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I was sitting in the Nashville International Airport waiting for my fiance' to show when I saw this fresh-faced sailor (just a kid really) dragging along a bunch of his friends. He was literally acting as if he were a rock star. A closer look at his uniform showed that he was a SEAL.
I was just waiting at the Clarksville Limousine Service stand when he came up to get his rental next to me. "A SEAL, huh?" He looked like he was kinda tired of answering questions from his two friends and a trio of (actually pretty hot-looking) girls. He answered yes he just got out of SEAL training and was on leave. I got the idea that he was a fake from just the way he answered, so while he waited for his rental paperwork I glanced over his ribbons.
"How long you been in?" I asked. "About 8 months" he said.
Liar, he had two rows of ribbons, one was an "E" and this kid only had diagonal stripe on his shoulder.
He just sounded funny now, started to tapdance. "When did you graduate Jump School? Ranger School?" "What was your class number? Date?" No straight answers.
His friends started to look a little more at their aquaintance now, obviously uncomfortable.
It turns out that one of the reasons they were getting uncomfortable was that we were starting to draw a little crowd.
Two of the faces in the crowd were a little more interested, this kid obviously didn't know that Nashville is less than an hour's drive south from Fort Campell, Kentucky.
Further, he certainly wouldn't have guessed that two Special Forces NCOs just returning from language training would be sitting at the Clarksville Limo Service counter waiting to go back to Fort Campbell.
These two didn't raise their voices, but I have never seen a more hopeless look on a cornered person in all my life. He went into the restroom with the two NCOs and a police officer assigned to airport security. He came back out in regular clothes, the cop had "his" awards.
What's more, his entourage of friends had left him.
Not the best decision he's made.
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Oderit Dum Metuant
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Posted :: 5/12/2005 4:58:04 PM EDT
SkyShark341
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Cool beans.....
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Posted :: 5/12/2005 7:54:49 PM EDT
nf9648
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Originally Posted By UrbanTactical:
Besides the fraud, can't you be imprisoned for wearing a MOH if you didn't really received the medal.
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Any wear of the uniform or awards and decorations is illegal, not just the CMOH. Download a copy of AR 670-1, it should say what can be worn by who in the first few pages. The only people outside the military authorized to wear a military uniform are retirees, there is even a class A patch and BDU patch just for retirees. This isnt saying you cannot wear BDU's, its saying you cannot wear them in a military appearance for fraudulent purposes.
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Posted :: 5/12/2005 8:10:51 PM EDT
Last Edited :: 5/12/2005 8:12:09 PM EDT by nf9648
MTRancher
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If you graduate BUDS, you have to serve on a Team for 6 months(may be longer now) before you are eligible to wear the SEAL badge. I had a kid who worked for me overseas who graduated BUDS then didnt pan out in the Teams and he was not authorized to wear the SEAL insignia, only the Navy jump wings.
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Posted :: 5/13/2005 9:06:06 PM EDT
nationwide
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Originally Posted By MTRancher:
If you graduate BUDS, you have to serve on a Team for 6 months(may be longer now) before you are eligible to wear the SEAL badge. I had a kid who worked for me overseas who graduated BUDS then didnt pan out in the Teams and he was not authorized to wear the SEAL insignia, only the Navy jump wings.
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I went to college with a guy who went claimed he graduated BUD/S (don't remember his name/don't really matter). He said he never served with the Teams because he couldn't/didn't get a billet.
He always wore his field jacket with all his patches on it. Any SEAL patches??? nope. But he was sure proud of the big ole SEA BEEs patch
And he never claimed he was a SEAL, so I dunno.
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All I want out of life is a cute senorita to help me with my spanish, and maybe my GREEK if I'm lucky!!!
There are many SiG's, and they all kick ass!
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Posted :: 5/13/2005 9:13:05 PM EDT
Last Edited :: 5/13/2005 9:14:40 PM EDT by nationwide
EmbraceTheHate
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Originally Posted By MTRancher:
If you graduate BUDS, you have to serve on a Team for 6 months(may be longer now) before you are eligible to wear the SEAL badge. I had a kid who worked for me overseas who graduated BUDS then didnt pan out in the Teams and he was not authorized to wear the SEAL insignia, only the Navy jump wings.
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Now new guys check into their Teams with their Tridents. Lots of changes have been made over the last few years, and that is one of them. The training pipeline no longer includes a probationary period at the commands. However, there is still much to learn once they arrive, and new guys still do get canned if they are not able to perform at the levels expected.
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Posted :: 5/14/2005 7:57:19 PM EDT
SgtWhiting
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Originally Posted By tweeter:
I was sitting in the Nashville International Airport waiting for my fiance' to show when I saw this fresh-faced sailor (just a kid really) dragging along a bunch of his friends. He was literally acting as if he were a rock star. A closer look at his uniform showed that he was a SEAL.
I was just waiting at the Clarksville Limousine Service stand when he came up to get his rental next to me. "A SEAL, huh?" He looked like he was kinda tired of answering questions from his two friends and a trio of (actually pretty hot-looking) girls. He answered yes he just got out of SEAL training and was on leave. I got the idea that he was a fake from just the way he answered, so while he waited for his rental paperwork I glanced over his ribbons.
"How long you been in?" I asked. "About 8 months" he said.
Liar, he had two rows of ribbons, one was an "E" and this kid only had diagonal stripe on his shoulder.
He just sounded funny now, started to tapdance. "When did you graduate Jump School? Ranger School?" "What was your class number? Date?" No straight answers.
His friends started to look a little more at their aquaintance now, obviously uncomfortable.
It turns out that one of the reasons they were getting uncomfortable was that we were starting to draw a little crowd.
Two of the faces in the crowd were a little more interested, this kid obviously didn't know that Nashville is less than an hour's drive south from Fort Campell, Kentucky.
Further, he certainly wouldn't have guessed that two Special Forces NCOs just returning from language training would be sitting at the Clarksville Limo Service counter waiting to go back to Fort Campbell.
These two didn't raise their voices, but I have never seen a more hopeless look on a cornered person in all my life. He went into the restroom with the two NCOs and a police officer assigned to airport security. He came back out in regular clothes, the cop had "his" awards.
What's more, his entourage of friends had left him.
Not the best decision he's made.
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I just love a happy ending....(tear forming in my eye....)
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Posted :: 5/17/2005 12:57:46 PM EDT
Last Edited :: 5/17/2005 12:59:07 PM EDT by SgtWhiting
bruh44
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I knew a guy in my old unit who went home on leave, went to a race wearing his uniform after growing a beard. He had added a few patches though. Scuba, SF, SEAR.... a few others. All of this with his MP patch, and his SPC rank. He happend to run into a First Sergant at the race who asked a few questions, got his unit out of him, and called. We dubbed him scuba steve. A year later he got busted, and sent to camp Lejuene for bad checks.... go figure.
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Posted :: 5/21/2005 5:42:18 AM EDT
YearZero
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Its easy to spot an Airborne poser.
Coin check him (though this is not as effective as it used to be due to the spread of the 'challenge' coin). Ask him the nomenclature of a weapons case, ask him the nomenclature of the chutes he jumped. No poser I have ever met has been able to answer these questions, and regretably Ive met quite a few.
formerly 2ndOPDET/B Co/8th POB/4th POG
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Posted :: 5/24/2005 5:47:37 PM EDT
161Infantry
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Still carry my 101st Abn coin, but coins are easy to order online now
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Posted :: 5/25/2005 10:25:21 PM EDT
Tanker06
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Had a guy in my first unit show up, assigned to S-4, abt half-way through my tour. E-5 w/ a shitload
of tabs for this, that and the other. My vault was next to their office, so I got to talk to him quite a bit.
Never any indication that anything was amiss, and he was highspeed, and the staff loved him.
His 'highspeed/low-drag' attitude turned out to be his undoing. The SGM decided to put him in for some
award (can't remember what now) and in checking his record, couldn't find a date for something, so
he called the school. They'd never heard of the guy. A few more calls, and these other schools had
never heard of him either.
Come to find out, the guy was supposed to be a SPC, but being in S-4, he'd forged up all the paperwork
in his records, and promoted himself in the process.
He evidently got wind somehow that they were on to him, as he had emptied his apartment (on the
German economy) and was gone when they went to cuff & stuff him. Never seen again by us.....
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"...and then I just kind of got sucked into his vortex of stupidity."
DK-Prof referring to Ritual
--
"By the time I am done with you, you will be ALLLLL gay!" Sgtar15
--
FMD to protus:...you give trolls a bad name.
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Posted :: 5/26/2005 11:04:47 AM EDT
Last Edited :: 5/26/2005 11:05:32 AM EDT by Tanker06
rynich
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I had this E-4 that was on leave US Army tell me he was the snipper that put one in the Columbian drug lord. I can't remember his name, but anyway I told him I thought he was full of crap, and that if it were true no way would an E-4 be given that job unless he was the best shot in the country. Anyway, I just told his girly friend that she can believe his garbage but I didn't have time for the BS.
Before I joned the Army I used to work tables at gunshows with a friend of mine, and after "First Blood" came out you would not believe how many green berets there were at the gun show it was pathetic.
Anyone ever hear of a paper tab I had the displeasure of meeting one that only found out after he got us lost 6klicks off target. He said he was in Vietnam, first pig mades some phone calls and the jig was up, but he was still allowed to ware the SF tab.
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Posted :: 6/3/2005 2:24:12 AM EDT
napalm
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Originally Posted By YearZero:
Its easy to spot an Airborne poser.
Coin check him (though this is not as effective as it used to be due to the spread of the 'challenge' coin). Ask him the nomenclature of a weapons case, ask him the nomenclature of the chutes he jumped. No poser I have ever met has been able to answer these questions, and regretably Ive met quite a few.
formerly 2ndOPDET/B Co/8th POB/4th POG
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What's your fourth point of performance?
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Proud resident of the Uzi Triangle.
I execute standing position 12 from the Kama Sutra.
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Posted :: 6/4/2005 5:37:57 PM EDT
JohnReich
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What sort of moron thinks someone would actually believe him if he claimed to win the damn Medal of Honor? People like that require a stiff beating, for their own good.
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Posted :: 6/4/2005 5:47:51 PM EDT
M4arc
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I'm not Military or LEO but in my division of the company a TS clearance is necessary. You wouldn't believe how many people we interview that tell us they have a "clearance that is higher than TS and they can't talk about it" or put on their resume various 3 letter agencies and then put, "Due to the nature of this project Mr. Suchandsuch is not allowed to discuss the details of his employment on this project."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttttttt.
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I support the dedicated 1911 forum idea --> www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=16823
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Posted :: 6/4/2005 6:05:36 PM EDT
82ndAbn
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After being tacked here for over a month and having approx. 800 reads, I think I'll float this over to GD.
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I'm the 82nd Airborne and this is as far as the bastards are going!
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Posted :: 6/5/2005 1:00:35 PM EDT
Tannim
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I went to college with an older guy that was quiet, unassuming but very sharp and driven. One day we were hanging out at the gun range and theres this kid sitting there talking to all his friends about "When I was with the SEALS, blah,blah,blah."
My friend marches right over and starts firing off questions real rapid.
"What's your BUDS school number" Huh? What?
"Where are the base you stationed out of?" Uh... That's classified
"What team did you serve on?" Ummm, errr...
"Yeah, I know that team.. Who did you serve with?" ummmm... ahh...
"You're full of shit. I'm former SEAL and it makes me sick to hear someone like make claims like this. SHUT THE FUCK UP."
Turns out my friend was the REAL DEAL. I never knew until the day he made that guy look like a total ass to his friends. It just hit one of his piss off buttons listening to this kid go on and on about "When I was in Lebonon, we popped these two rag heads..."
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Posted :: 6/5/2005 1:34:04 PM EDT
Last Edited :: 6/5/2005 1:34:45 PM EDT by Tannim
joker581
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Originally Posted By JohnReich:
What sort of moron thinks someone would actually believe him if he claimed to win the damn Medal of Honor? People like that require a stiff beating, for their own good.
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You would be amazed. Some go as far as getting MOH license plates. Some make it their whole lives without being found out until their family applies for the benefits after they die. Many are only found out when they take the lies too far and try to apply to organizations such as the Legion of Valor(actually, many posers of all types are found out this way).
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It was an FNC.
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